Be Part of the Conversation
What do you think about the Administration's recommendation for which of Keene's five elementary schools to close, and how grade assignments will change in the remaining four schools? The Keene Board of Education wants your input before a final decision is made, and this area is for you to (electronically) share your thoughts. If you have a question, feel free to pose it here and we will answer the question or try to find the information you are looking for.
Please be respectful and constructive with your feedback, suggestions and questions.
Please note that comments will be pre-screened for inappropriate language and/or links before posting. Thank you.

At the forum earlier this
At the forum earlier this week I heard someone speak about how many current 5th grade students had not started at Symonds while in Kindergarden. (I wonder what the statistics are for how many, and at what grades, students move to Keene and move within the Keene schools.) But more importantly, there was not much discussion about this topic, but I saw lots of people nodding in agreement when this fact was brought up. I hope that those in attendance were not thinking this was more of a reason to create narrow grade-span schools in Keene thinking that kids move often these days anyway. Because I strongly believe the exact opposite is true. If that many kids are moving in the early elementary grades (and I believe it based on my educational experience) then that is more of a reason to have a wide grade-span so that students have a better chance of staying in a single Keene school for a longer period of time.
Take for example a student who moves to Keene in first or second grade (due to the great schools we have!) This student would then be facing a third school transition for second or third grade and another one for sixth grade. That would be at least four schools in six years! I believe we would be doing children (and families) a disservice creating narrow grade-span elementary schools.
I would also like to add that the US Department of Education does not even track individual statistics for the number of schools with grade-spans of PreK/K to 1 or preK/k to 2. That is clearly how uncommon a narrow grade-span is in the US. For more statistical information about school grade-spans see the following link.
http://nces.ed.gov/programs/digest/d10/tables/dt10_103.asp
I am someone who often likes to think outside the box, so just because many schools don't have narrow grade-spans isn't necessarily a reason not to do it. However, it doesn't seem that anyone has provided research-based reasons or a pedagogical basis as to why narrow grade spans are good for the children of Keene, NH....except to save even more money. But I believe that many educators, parents and community members have provided reasons why it is important we have wide grade-spans in our schools.
I believe that going to four schools will save a considerable amount of money and is a starting point for reducing the burden on Keene taxpayers. But lets not stop there. I believe utilizing transportation software and examining the delivery of education and support services can find further ways to reduce the tax burden without affecting student learning. Thanks for your very hard work and great communication!
Hi My name is George
Hi
My name is George Paquette. I am a technical specialist for the North Providence school dept.
Part of my job is maintaining GIS (mapping) software for NP transportation and redistricting projects. I have been providing this service since 1991
I have over 20 years of GIS experience and have worked on many projects in other towns as well as serving as GIS consultant for the CO/OP out of Waltham Mass.
If you are interested, I can send you some samples of my work and/or
meet with you to discuss a cost effective method for reconfiguring
your school district boundaries and transportation network.
Sincerely,
George Paquette
Hello, and thank you very
Hello, and thank you very much for your interest in our project. I would suggest you contact our superintendent, Bill Gurney: bgurney@sau29.org to see if it might be beneficial to send samples or speak.
Sincerely,
Kristin Blais
Not sound practice. I know
Not sound practice. I know several of the following points have been noted in the Keene Elementary Ad Hoc Advisory Committee notes, but I thought I would add my two cents here about why I believe having narrow grade spans are not what is best for the children of Keene.
While there are a number of different opinions on what should be done in the Keene schools, I don't think anyone disputes that our decisions have to be driven not by finance but by what is best for the children. Educators know that children (and families) thrive on relationships. Building and maintaining positive relationships between school and home is neither easy nor fast, it requires time, patience and hard work. As the parent of a 2nd and a 4th grader, I know my own children were in 2nd grade when they began to feel a full part of the school community- to understand the traditions and processes unique to the school. 2nd graders thrive on routine and predictability- developmentally, the stress of being asked to change schools just at the time one was beginning to feel at home would impede learning and would be counter-productive to the goals of the school. Stress is a real factor with children and their education. Transitions can be very difficult for children, especially at a young age. If Keene was to go to a K-2, 3-5, 6-8, 9-12 model then children would be facing a major school transition every three years of their educational career. As a result, I believe student learning in Keene Elementary schools would clearly suffer with a narrow grade span school system.
My professional career is in education and has centered on building a strong culture within a school and classroom. I have taught second and third grades (currently a multiage 2-3) and I was also a school principal for several years. Part of my principal internship was in a narrow grade-span school system. A strong school culture is built with hard work and high levels of involvement by families (parents and students), classroom teachers, specialist teachers, support staff, and administrators. The benefits of the K-5 (or even better- the K-8) system are multi-fold. Students have the opportunity to know one another and be known well by the adults in the building. They have the opportunity to mentor and be mentored across grade levels. They have a chance to learn together across a longer developmental span, without disruption, providing for better learning and support. No one group of children needs these things more than children who are struggling early in school. Response to Intervention (RTI), 504, and special education services are key to helping children who are struggling in school. While vital during all grades, all three of these services are critical in the second to third grade transition which involves huge jumps developmentally in math and in reading. In addition these two years can be very important years in the SPED identification process. As a result, I believe the effectiveness of RTI, 504, and SPED services in Keene Elementary schools would clearly suffer within a narrow grade span school system.
Students, teachers and schools all need to work together to create an effective learning environment in which children can thrive. In this day and age where all adults are working more hours, being pulled more directions, and have more stress than ever, a large number of families in Keene would have a more difficult time staying involved in their children’s lives. Imagine having a 2nd and 4th grader in two different schools. Which PTA meeting do you attend? Volunteers are critical to elementary grades K-5. So which school do you volunteer in? You now have two open houses to attend. If the children are on a 504 or IEP you now have two sets of OT, counselors, SPED teachers, etc. to work with. What about school plays- you now have to attend two different nights. Picking up children becomes more difficult- how can you be two places at one time? This all becomes even more difficult if you have a middle school student. As a result, I believe family involvement in Keene Elementary schools would clearly suffer with a narrow grade span school system.
For all the reasons stated above, I believe following a narrow grade span is not sound pedagogical practice for the children of Keene.
John, thank you so much for
John, thank you so much for taking the time to put your thoughts together. Will you be able to come to the forum this evening? If so, I hope you will share these thoughts so that they can be heard and discussed. (If you will not be there, I would like to read your comments so they can be heard.)
As you know, we are trying hard to find a workable solution to a complex problem. We have not yet found any solution that has all advantages and no disadvantages. We appreciate very much your participation in the process.
Kristin
Yes, I plan on attending
Yes, I plan on attending tonight.
Thank you for these forums. I
Thank you for these forums.
I did not see a room for the computer lab at Fuller on many of the plans where additional rooms were built. I only saw the Computer Lab appear on two of the plans; 5B slide 60 and 4A slide 71. Was this an oversight?
Thank you
Hi Mary Ellen, Thank you for
Hi Mary Ellen,
Thank you for the question. I know that mistake has been fixed on at least 4C and 4E (I don't have the latest drawings for 4D in front of me), so the short answer is that it was an oversight. The elementary principals found a few issues when they met with the architect and Marinace has been working hard to identify and label all of the essential spaces on all of the various options. Some work better than others. Thank you for paying such close attention. I know the drawings are not all that easy to read.
Kristin Blais
Has it even been considered
Has it even been considered adjusting the highschool, by numbers I see online the ratio of students to teachers leaves teachers not teaching a few periods a day and 7 administrators? really. There were THREE when I attended HS, gold hall, blue hall, red hall. there is where money can be saved by cutting pay even by 5% to save the schools. is Winchester now paying full taxes for students coming to Keene? I have seeked several areas that have the p-k-2 and 3-5 and are switching back to pk-5 again!! this is all nonsense talk and budget cuts should be looked else where instead of closing and smooshing 5 schools worth of children to 1-2. so much for community/family feeling schools.
Hello, thank you for your
Hello, thank you for your comment. I agree that we need to be cost-effective at all levels. One thing you may not realize is that over the past ten years, Keene's high school per pupil spending has been very close to the state average (which doesn't mean the issues you raise cannot be looked at, only that you consider how the district spends money in a larger context). At the elementary level, Keene has been between 20 and 40% over the state elementary per pupil average every single year.
In studying the issue, we find that a major contributor to this fact is structural. By choosing to have so many small schools and choosing to configure them widely (i.e. preK or K-5), we have very little flexibility in dealing with enrollment fluctuations. As a result, we run far more classroom sections with wide variations in class sizes (some classes as small as 12 or 13 children) than we otherwise would. The Elementary Ad Hoc committee has strived to find solutions that make our system more cost-effective while preserving the educational programs we offer to students. Even under a four school model, our elementary schools would be distributed throughout the city and would continue to be relatively small schools that could/would continue to be warm and nurturing environments for children.
Kristin Blais
Dear Keene Elementary Ad Hoc
Dear Keene Elementary Ad Hoc Advisory Committee,
I have been attending the Keene Elementary Ad Hoc Advisory Committee forums and contributing from a parent perspective- two Symonds students. I am also a former school administrator (Stoddard- SAU24) and currently an educator in Harrisville. I have passed along several school efficiency ideas in the community forums, but I would like to share one more with the committee.
SAU 24 in Henniker recently examined their transportation costs using a bus efficiency software program (not sure which program they used though.) A transportation SAU24 subcommittee developed a plan to provide student transportation to and from schools that will be more efficient and effective for the 2009-2010 school year. SAU24 realized a cost savings (upwards of $110,000 the first year alone!) I do know that SAU24 does some shared/tiered bussing with middle and elementary students on the same bus, but even if Keene isn’t able to do that, I would imagine some efficiencies could be had using this type of software!
Thanks for the time and you and your committee are putting into this project. Your committee is doing a fantastic job of helping this very difficult process move forward. The communication has been top notch- Thanks!!
I am sorry I could not make the presentation tonight. Will the Presentation (I assume powerpoint) be available online?
John Thomas
Symonds parent
Hi John, Thank you so much
Hi John, Thank you so much for taking the time to provide the information. It certainly makes sense to contact SAU 24 to find out what software they used and whether it could help us save on transportation costs.
The presentation is available on this website. Click on the green Forums tab, then click on the Attachments link under Forum #7. Handouts that were available last night are also available there.
If you have additional thoughts, or any questions, don't hesitate to contact me or anyone on the committee.
Kristin
My comments are in regard to
My comments are in regard to both the past and present. Unfortunately, prior school district/board actions continued to coddle the neighborhood school concept. It should have been clear, this was a dying concept. Where is/was the 'Masterplan"? If there is no plan in place for the future, we will continue into the future struggling as we are now. Years ago, when land was more available, the city should have been divided into 2 or 3 districts with a larger elementary school in each. These schools would have been masterpieces with all of the bells and whistles, land for expansion and sports activities, etc. I am not saying what we have is inadequate; it is just not what it could have been. Certainly consolidation is going to happen; just make it as painless to the taxpayers as possible. Revenues are down, good paying employment is thinning out. I would say a Masterplan with eyes to the future; following the plan; incorporating the changes in a balanced manner over time would work. Maybe it's not too late....
Hello everyone, If you were
Hello everyone,
If you were unable to attend the community forum on March 15, 2011, you may watch a recording of the meeting on Cheshire TV (Channel 8) on Sun. 3/20/11 at 8 pm, Tue. 3/22/11 at 7 pm, Thu. 3/24/11 at 7 pm or or Sat. 3/26/11 at 12 noon.
Many thanks to Cheshire TV.
To the members of the Keene
To the members of the Keene Ad Hoc Committee on Change and cost cutting
As we all know, the Keene School Board is currently trying to find ways to reduce costs in the elementary schools. This can be a daunting task, giving that the enrollment is going down, the costs are going up, and in keeping with the concept that the taxes must be supportive of education, Keene like most communities tends to make cuts to areas where we can least afford to cut. I am inferring that there has been years of neglect, as far as the keeping up with changes in building codes, changes in recommended accessibility for buildings, and the basic changes in the technology that we need to teach in this day and age. There is far too much being spent on personnel where there should be a creative way of how we look at staffing. Although I detest the hiring of an architectural firm to point out what needs to be done structurally to make our buildings safe and up to code, this may be necessary. Most businesses, (and education is a very big business) know that they have to maintain and update their facilities periodically.
Government seems to have the theory that if it breaks, it will be fixed. Even the homeowner knows better than to plan on heating systems lasting fifty years, or the roof will go over thirty years. The school district must develop and maintain a Capital Improvement Plan for all the schools, not just build it and forget it. Maybe these huge budget surpluses that the district has returned to the taxpayer, should be kept for paying for some of these improvements.
I will remind the members that as of this fiscal year, there is no building aid available to the school districts. And, given the current political climate, I seriously doubt that the Keene district has the political clout to get a special exception from the legislature.
Bernie Novak
All the materials, research,
All the materials, research, etc. that I have seen appear to be pointing in the same direction, the elimination of staff and, probably, one of the current schools. We can tweak and pinch pennies forever, but the big monetary amounts are locked up in these items. Painful as this is, we should acknowledge that this is a step that private businesses, faced with similar cost structure issues, are forced to take on a regular basis. Having said that, it matters very much how it is done. I would be extremely disappointed if it all boiled down to seniority issues, as these things often do. As a starting point how about this? Size the staff appropriately for all functions. The highest performers should be incented to stay. The lowest-performers should be incented to leave. The school board and/or principals should know where everyone stands on the scale. I read one post on this site about a school that appeared to be in horrible disrepair (filthy attic, bats, no insulation...). Maybe that's the school to close or maybe there is another that is a better candidate because of long-term cost issues. That should be researched much the same as the middle-school issue was. Just my thoughts. Thanks for the opportunity.
Hi again---just to say that I
Hi again---just to say that I had a few more thoughts to share and thought I was saving my message not actually sending it. It's fine that it's on here but I hope to add other thoughts regarding ways we can treat all of Keene like 'our neighborhood." Also have comments on the 'vertical curriculum' and sharing information on kids when they make transitions. But I have to go now!
Thank you for this chance to share.
Hi, I attended the forum last
Hi, I attended the forum last night and was impressed by the work that's been done. The core values that you have developed truly can guide the school decisions. As you showed us the pros and cons of the various choices, I was struck by how some of pros as well as cons apply to Keene and some do not. For example, with regard to the narrow vs. wide grade span plan, how many familes really stay in the same school for more than two-three years tops? Although these forums will always have at least one parent passionately defending their own child's wonderful 5-6 years in their neighborhood elementary school, I'll bet you could find as many parents who were happy to switch schools. Beyond that though,if we consider what the research tells us about children, they do best with good teachers at each grade level. Most kids who go through the same elementary school will have about two years with a less than ideal teacher situation. I'm not dissing teacher at all--far from it---I'm talking about the match between teacher and student style. Teaching today is harder than ever before. There is more to teach and more ways to teach it. The children are in general less eager to listen closely and follow directions. (Many social factors are the reasons for this.)I think that having teachers confined to three grade levels will certainly provide opportunities for more collaboration, more motivation, and more understanding of each individual child because more teachers at that grade level will be able to offer perspective to each other.
And what about principals? Schools need leaders who can protect and nurture the best teachers and bring the middle-of-the-road professionals along in ways that pay off for the kids and that do not penalize the top teachers by putting all the tough kids, or all the kids whose paretns requested them in their rooms. Principals need to be closer than ever before to what is going on hour by hour in their schools.
The argument about playing in neighborhood where there is a neighborhood school may be another
Thank you very much for your
Thank you very much for your thoughtful comments and for coming out to the forum last evening.
We hear that Keene’s cost per
We hear that Keene’s cost per pupil is significantly higher than the state average. Can that per pupil cost be broken down further and compared to components of the state per pupil average? For example, do we have the data to individually compare per pupil costs of building operations, administration (personnel as well as a comparative look at insurances i.e. Workers Comp costs), capital equipment, consumable materials, support services, teaching staff, etc.? It may be that this more detailed comparative analysis could help prioritize our cost saving efforts, while upholding the values identified in the first community forum.
Hi Peg, thank you for your
Hi Peg, thank you for your input. The State DOE-25 report does break down districts' expenses into categories such as the ones you note above. It can be a little tricky to make comparisons because district enrollments vary so much, but we will look at it and let everyone know what we can glean. Thank you again for getting involved. Kristin
Kristin, Would it be possible
Kristin,
Would it be possible to have the referred to State DOE-25 report posted in the Resources section?
Thanks
Hi Joji, Absolutely. Will you
Hi Joji,
Absolutely. Will you remind me where the reference is so that I can be sure to post the appropriate form(s)? We have the DOE-25 for Keene as well as many other districts. Thanks! Kristin
i will not be able to attend
i will not be able to attend the next meeting, but have been to the previous two. my suggestions pertain to the franklin school. i believe that an energy audit would reveal huge expenditures due to no insulation in the ceilings and poor windows and doors. the attic is filthy and full of bats and bat guano which probably makes its way into the school air. some basic building maintenance and cleaning would go along with upgrading the overall weatherproofing and insulating to save money and enhance the general comfort of staff and students. another suggestion that i have is to offer early retirement to some of the faculty that are making the highest salaries and hiring some young, energetic teachers to replace them. this would save money AND enhance the quality of education, not to mention bringing in some freshness. the teachers should not have computers on their desks in the classroom because it is a distraction for them and a psychological barrier between the students and the teacher. there are many places in the school where the staff can access computers without having it right on their classroom desk. thanks for considering my suggestions.
I find it interesting that (i
I find it interesting that (i will not be able to attend) finds getting inexperienced, cheap teachers will enhance kids' education. While new teachers may be energetic, it takes years to get a strong understanding of how to teach well. My kids are both in elementary school. In first and second grade, my son had new teachers who had little classroom control or methodology. Yes, they were "fun," but my son was stunted. In 3rd and 4th grade, when he got older teachers, his test scores, love of school, and work ethic all skyrocketed. One of those teachers retired the following year, so by your standards, she was outdated. My daughter has had similar experiences. She has learned very little from her two newer teachers. She had started out strong and now is completely unchallenged because these teachers are still learning. In a few years, they'll be great, but replacing higher-paid teachers with new ones is exactly why people fear getting rid of unions and tenure. How would you like it if you worked at a company for 20 years and were fired not for being a bad worker but because a new guy would be cheaper!
Hello, I am uncertain how to
Hello, I am uncertain how to respond because I am not aware of any proposal to replace our experienced teachers with inexperienced, cheap teachers. When you say "by your standards" who are you referring to, and what was the conversation about? (I'm certain it was not a conversation held by the Elementary Ad Hoc Committee.) Thank you, Kristin Blais
Kristin, it was in response
Kristin, it was in response to the above comment titled "I will not be able to attend"'s suggestion, not to your committee.
Sorry about that! Thanks for
Sorry about that! Thanks for the clarification. I failed to see it was part of a thread. K
Energy Conservation - At the
Energy Conservation - At the May 19 forum, many groups expressed an interest in energy conservation savings. A Local Energy Solutions conference is happening on June 19 in Concord. For more information, go to:
http://www.cleanair-coolplanet.org/les2010/agenda.php.
If you have an interest in green energy solutions and would like to contribute to this process by attending the event, we would love to get your report and ideas.
Just wanted to say that as a
Just wanted to say that as a parent of two kids in the elementary schools -- but also a taxpayer who is feeling the pinch -- I appreciate the opportunity to address this issue together as a community (and not just "behind closed doors"). We have some difficult decisions to make!